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Nearly One in Four Fail Army Entrance Exam

Discussion in 'Society and Culture' started by SixofNine, Dec 21, 2010.

  1. SixofNine

    SixofNine Jedi Sage Staff Member

    Not sure what to make of this, though there is some concern quoted in the article about the pool of eligible soldiers shrinking to a level that would affect readiness.

    And a large number don't even make it to the exam:

    http://www.wbay.com/Global/story.asp?S=13720363
     
  2. Arc

    Arc Full Member


    According to the linked article:

    Look, if I had to hold off the enemy at a choke point with small arms only and I could have one other guy stay to help me and I had to choose a person, none of whom I knew, from any of the services I would choose a Marine. However, I find it absolutely unbelievable that the Marines require a higher score than the Army on their tests. (Any chance the Marines have roving "tutors" while potential recruits are taking their tests?)

    Also, not to go OT but for years I've talked about how undermanned and overstretched our military is but to no avail as generating a topic of conversation. Off the top of my head its my impression that we have something like only about one third the numbers of the regular military versus the peak of the Reagan era.
     
  3. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/genjoin/a/asvabminimum.htm

     
  4. cmhbob

    cmhbob Did...did I do that? Staff Member

    Here's another version of the original article, only because it has a more readable graphic, and has some sample questions.
    http://www.theleafchronicle.com/article/20101221/NEWS08/101221020

    Interesting to see where the lower and higher percentages of failures are.
    http://cmsimg.theleafchronicle.com/...No=101221020&Ref=AR&MaxW=550&MaxH=650&title=0

    Here's a link to the Ed Trust report, with some other tables: http://www.edtrust.org/sites/edtrust.org/files/publications/files/ASVAB_4.pdf

    I don't see any criticism of the military's standards, which is good. This is an indictment of education.
     
  5. Allene

    Allene Registered User

    Yes, it is. Too many kids who were passed on to the next grade so as not to hurt their feelings. The chickens come home to roost later on. I wonder why the Air Force and the Coast Guards have the two toughest requirements?
     
  6. John R. Beanham

    John R. Beanham Typical Aussie Male

    They should use the Australian school exam system,

    just keep on lowering the pass mark until you get the success rate you require.

    Problem solved.
     
  7. Kluge

    Kluge Observing your world for over 50 years

    One of you mil folks has said you only require 10% of the yearly population to serve in the military.

    Even if you assume that overweight, criminal, and dropouts are statistically neutral in regard to ability to pass the entrance exam, taking your 10% choice cut out of the qualifying 25% would still get you (on average) members of the top 40% of the population. That would mean your PFC's would likely be smarter than 60% of the citizens. Of course, they have to pick the services and not vice-versa.

    Perhaps the services will need to revise their concept of fitness as well. The pudgy computer geek stereotype is far more than accidental, I believe. They're more an example of speedy evolution and adaptation when competition weeds out the people who aren't desk-addicted.
     
  8. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    The services have revised their concept of fitness. Especially the Air Force. And sitting on one's fat arse isn't it.
     
  9. Stiofan

    Stiofan Master Po

    These tests are racist.


    Clearly they are intended to keep minorities out of the military.
     
  10. mikepd

    mikepd Veteran Member

    I think the issue of minorities in the military is a bit more complex that too simply say it is the service testing method that is keeping them from serving in greater proportions.

    This link shows the percentage of all races serving in the Armed Forces as of 2009 and I feel that the school systems the recruits come from as well as the home environment play a large factor in how the recruits perform on the tests. If they come from dysfunctional homes, underfunded schools then they are already at a disadvantage in comparison to others who come from more stable backgrounds.

    Long gone are the days when the US military simply needed bodies to fill a line on a battlefield and carry a weapon and shoot it. Today's service is complex, with weapon systems that require an educated force to maintain, use, and command it. The higher the education a recruit has upon entering and the more he or she gets during their service years, the more valuable they are to the military and their country. The services invest a huge cost in training people and only if they are fully prepared to take advantage of that training will all that investment have a decent return.
     
  11. Stiofan

    Stiofan Master Po

    It was a joke. Although I'm sure it will soon show up in the MSM, with a press conference by Al Sharpton to follow.
     
  12. mikepd

    mikepd Veteran Member

    I figured you were either joking or being sarcastic which is why I replied to the thread and not to you. I was curious to see what the breakdowns were and was actually surprised to find the minority enlistment at the level shown. I had thought it would be higher than that with the economy the way it is and people trying to find jobs.

    As for the 'usual suspects' showing up and complaining about unfairness in testing methods and so forth, expect a new coalition between Sharpton and the TEA Party. Sharpton will handle the racism end of the equation and the TEA Party will have signs saying 'Read Our Lips- "No New Taxes".

    Speaking of the TEA Party, I have tried to find out who came up with the name 'Taxed Enough Already (TEA) but so far have come up with zip. I have not yet made up my mind as to whether it is a good name or if it is too easy to marginalize.
     
  13. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    http://www.airforce-magazine.com/MagazineArchive/Magazine%20Documents/2010/December%202010/1210chart.pdf
     
  14. Kluge

    Kluge Observing your world for over 50 years

    It ain't me...It ain't me...I ain't no fortunate son, no, no, no.
    I didn't join up, either, recruitment was strict in 1975 and I would have had to fib some.
    (I often wonder how crucial it is to lie to get in since deception is often key to military tactics).

    It's possible that minority failure rates contribute to reverse stereotypes.
    By skewing the average members of a group out, the group members that do get in would be on average smarter than the recruits pulled from a group that has members who qualify easily.
     
  15. LtC Dan

    LtC Dan No horse too dead to beat

    "Got a letter in the mail,
    Join the Army or go to jail..."

    I worked in a restaurant before I enlisted. A dishwasher asked me to help him study for the ASVAB. I couldn't figure out how to do that. The questions, to me, seemed so self-evident, I was simply amazed that this guy didn't know the answer.
     
  16. Biker

    Biker Administrator Staff Member

    Apparently I blew the curve when I took it all those years ago. And when I took the language aptitude test, the recruiters were practically on their knees begging me to change career choices.
     
  17. cmhbob

    cmhbob Did...did I do that? Staff Member

    You know, I scored high on language aptitude as well, but blew the follow-up test for DLI. That part made sense though, because learning foreign languages has never come easy for me.
     
  18. SixofNine

    SixofNine Jedi Sage Staff Member

    I knew a computer programmer once who served in the Army. He told me a story of playing chess with a fellow soldier and trouncing him game after game. He learned later in conversation that his opponent thought that chess was a game of chance.
     
  19. MNeedham73

    MNeedham73 Well-Known Member

    Same here. Came close to acing it, IIRC. Follow up test for me was for the Naval nuclear power program. Scored a 68/80 on that, which apparently was also very, very good at the time.
     
  20. mikepd

    mikepd Veteran Member

    I found some practice tests for the ASVAB online and they did not seem that complicated. Of course, I found the test given for the Selective Service exam back in 1972 was a real joke. With questions like what tool is best used on a nail, it was not exactly challenging. As a matter of fact, on of the examinees with me simply filled in all of the answers at random and somehow he managed to pass. Of course, he was already profiled to see the MO for mental reasons but that is another story. He was entertaining for sure. So was the group that wanted to join the Marines and get sent to China to take care of the 'Red Menace'.
     

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