I did. Two shots. I don't know if it'll prevent me from getting Covid, but I understand it'll probably prevent me from dying from it. That'll do. I'll take anything that increases my chances of surviving this daymn plague.
How about you? Yes? Or if NO, why not? I'd really be interested to hear why someone choses not to get the vaccine.
1. I trust the government as far as I can throw it. 2. No difference in pre- and post-vax life (still have to wear a mask, distancing, etc.) 3. No liability on the drug companies if you're injured/killed (adverse reaction). 4. I'm hearing things about how it screws up your immunoresponse to other virii. 5. I'm not in the 94% death rate demographic (65+, 2+ co-morbidities). 6. In my experience, the more something is advertised, the worse it is.
IMO, this has been a world-wide psychosocial experiment to see how whole populations react to fear. I'm not discounting the deaths or anything like that, however 1/3rd of the US deaths came from like 30 counties (out of 2,000+). New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts and Phoenix. Also, the best thing you can do to spread a virus is to keep everyone in confined quarters. And what did we do? Put COVID positive people in nursing homes (and the CDC knew in April that the vast majority of deaths were elderly) and force everyone else to stay in their homes. So if one got sick, the whole group got sick. Not to mention illegal aliens whom Border Patrol knew were COVID positive were released without restriction into the country.
Yeah. The actions of government (city, state and federal) went beyond their normal incompetence and deep into maliciousness.
Also, notice there's been no "death-toll chyrons" continuously on Pravda since Biden took office? Have you heard from any Pravda the latest US death total? We have been pounded 24/7 about the existential threat this shit is for 13+ months now. This has been a cooperative test to see how people react to long-term fear stimuli and measure their reactions as to how far they will go to keep from getting it and/or to train them to look to the government to "protect" you.
And, despite his ability to believe in so many lunatic conspiracy theories, he is still allowed to vote.
1. is my opinion arrived at through 50 years of observation and experience (the nine scariest words in the English language are, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you.").
2. "Until more is known, fully vaccinated people should continue to wear masks and stay 6 feet apart from other people in other settings, like when they are in public or visiting with unvaccinated people from multiple households." From the CDC FAQ.
6. Again, my opinion by observation and experience.
So fuck you Shiny. Fuck you in the ass with Nagan's Lucille, shoved in all the way up to the knob. I read, I read, then I read some more. I don't take the word of the talking head, I go all the way to the source documents. Then I cogitate on it, Grokking until fullness is achieved. You won't find a link to Fox News, the Daily Wire, or Blaze TV so don't give me shit about "alt-right news." 4a is a bit CT, but when the vaccine expert says something, I tend to give him credence.
I don't say shit like this unless I can back it up. So go back into your The New Turks and Rachael Maddow echo chamber and keep learning the talking points that you can't back up.
Good for you, Mark. I really would rather the people I know on this forum were protected, but some cannot be helped from themselves. I would respond with a good "fuck you" but you are doing yourself well enough without me. Edited to add that I hope the herd immunity or the number of people smart enough to take the vaccine protect you and others like you. I would rather you contributed to the herd immunity but it is what it is. Wow, "herd immunity" has herd for a reason.
Shiny, I have to ask, are you as condescending with the people you know IRL as you are with me? Because your ego is writing checks your ass can't cash.
I have said from the beginning we are stuck with COVID until there are no more humans. No matter what you do, you'll catch a cold, you'll catch the flu, and now you'll catch COVID (which is a 2nd cousin to the "common cold," 1st cousin to SARS). I haven't had a cold or flu in years, because I take reasonable anti-viral measures year-round. I don't get the flu vaccine (whish is hit or miss, more miss than hit), so why should I take this?
And "herd immunity" is more "those who've had it and survived" than everybody vaccinated. You know, Darwin?
Please explain to me this fear you feel. We will all die, the only question is when and the only answer is how well we lived our life and how we faced our end. The people who die in their bed surrounded by family are a miniscule minority. The vast majority of us die alone, terrified and bleeding.
I'm a little more pissed off than usual at shit like this because I went to go check on a friend of 30 years a couple of weeks ago and found him dead 3 days on the floor of his apartment.
I am in no hurry to die. That said, I don't fear my own death. I had my first heart attack 26 years ago and received my cancer diagnosis 7 years ago. I am on borrowed time and when this pandemic hit I figured I would not make it. I am retired so I had no requirement to be somewhere in a crowd. I respected the aerosol nature (I never put strong belief in surface transfer) so used mask when interfacing with anybody but my wife. The science figures I developed respect for were Fauci, Birk, and Gupta. Notice I said science since who was kissing orange butt and who wasn't became clear early on.
So vaccines were approved after testing. The tests were above 90% effective in age groups tested. So as soon as I could get one I did. As of this AM over 154 million people have received at least one dose of the vaccines. Since the time the vaccines rolled out the daily deaths in the US have gone from over 4000 per day to less than 700 per day now and dropping every day. You have implied that your time on this earth has been used so well that you can tell who and what to believe. So I have to ask, is 154 million US citizens receiving the vaccine not enough for you? Is a drop in deaths per day of over 3000 people not enough for you? If you have weakened immune system or other reason you have not stated it.
We are approaching 600,000 deaths in the US from Covid. Is that not enough for you?
I also do not fear my own death. I have gotten into several stare-downs with Death himself over my life and got him to blink each time (so far). I sincerely believe I am here right now only through Divine Intervention.
The FDA has only proved two things, a) that most people won't die from the shot itself and b) you have a lower chance of catching COVID after having it. That's their mandate, "safe and effective." That being said, this is the first time mRNA is being used in a vaccine. We have no idea what the long-term effects are. This is not a "teach your body to recognize and attack this virus," mRNA actually retools your immune system to attack COVID. If you watched the 4a video, the virologist and vaccine expert said that. So, let's say in 5 years we get hit with an outbreak of an already common virus. Our bodies cannot fight off what was once an old foe easily dealt with. So, millions of people will die from a rhinovirus (common cold) because our body can't fight it off. Our immune system is tuned to COVID and can't produce enough antibodies to fight this one off.
And I'm going to quote your mother here, "If 154 million people jumped off a cliff, would you do it because they did?"
And this is a major difference between you and me. I respect that you arrived at the choice you did. I never called you a lemming, or a sheep, or an automaton because you're doing what the government (who NEVER has your best interest at heart) told you what to do.
I made my choice based on my experience and research, you belittle me personally, say outright I am a conspiracy theorist, then cast doubt on my reasoning and cognitive abilities. This thread was on WHY you did or didn't take the shot. I gave 6 very specific reasons why not. Can you provide three on why you did? Beyond "the government told me to" of course.
And I have a lot of questions about the Wuhan lab, and Fauci, and several other things that I have not had the time to research to verify or disprove. And because I have not researched and cogitated on them to my satisfaction, I will say no more on them.
Just remember, you will never be told everything you need to know. I illustrate this by holding up my right hand, index finger pointing up, the thumb pointing left and say, "This is the lower right corner of the big picture. This is all I'm allowed to see."
And this is where you need to get your psych meds rechecked.
I have QUESTIONS. Notice I did NOT say what those questions are, just whom the questions were about. So how would you know how viable and reasonable my questions are or are not? To presume that my questions are wild and unsupported conspiracy theories only boosts your condescending, asshole and idiot markers at least two notches. From this conversation alone I would judge you to be the biggest pretentious, most smug asshole I have ever known. You are a monumental example to the idiot's side of the Dunning-Kreuger effect.
I have questions because I don't trust the word of our own government, let alone the CCP. What we've been told officially doesn't remotely pass the sniff test. And just because I don't believe the Party Line does NOT mean I believe in any particular theory. I apply the scientific method to things like this. You suspect something and you develop a hypothesis from that suspicion. You then develop the test to see if you're right or wrong, then you perform the test and analyze the results to prove or disprove your hypothesis. As a last step, you publish everything and other scientists replicate your test and measurements to confirm if your correct or not. Most great scientific discoveries are not marked with an "Eureka!" but with "Hmm... that's strange."
And IIRC, you were a Lt.Col? Unless you were a useless brown-nosing paper-pushing mushroom of a REMF you had to have seen and heard things. Things that were way different than what the public was told.
To assume my QUESTIONS are irrelevant, useless and unfounded only belies your own senility and cognitive dissonance to put you in the same mental category as President Houseplant.
Do I believe everything the government tells me? No, but neither do I believe it is all lies. But I do have a lot more faith in the scientific solutions than taking hydroxycloroquine, injecting bleach, or putting lights in the body to fix a disease.
The problem we all have in searching for answers on the internet is that you can find any answer you want depending on how you put your search or which answers you believe. I looked at your sources and actually lol'd at your vaccine expert. I gave you figures for deaths and vaccinations and the relationship between the two. You did not deign to respond so maybe you don't believe the figures or you are just waiting for the wholesale deaths from the vaccinations are just not yet apparent.
Funny thing, unless you believe in an international conspiracy to fool the people the numbers from all countries reflect the positive effect of the vaccines. If you do believe in that international conspiracy you are giving more credit to world leaders to maintain secrecy and fool us all. If you believe that particular conspiracy theory or that 45 actually won the election there is not much more to say.
Barring those who have an actual medical condition that precludes getting any of the vaccines there are two camps. One gets the vaccine to protect themselves, their loved ones, and, to a lesser degree, the rest of the citizens. The second camp chooses not to get the vaccine. Some have an aversion to needles. Some are luddites. Some are so involved in their obsession with their right to do what they want that they refuse any reason to take an action to protect others. My observation of anti Covid vaxxers reveals that many are opposed for political reasons. In spite of knowing the severity of the disease we had a national leader who repeatedly lied about it. Within a week (not looking up the exact dates) he stated government policy was to follow the science in reopening and then attacked governors who did not completely open their state. Ya, stable genius.
So, ya, I think most opposition is political from those whose chosen leader downplayed the pandemic from day one. The same leader of the same party hat made up rules as they went along and then changed the rules once they could, think supreme court nominees. The same leader who ousted members of government who did not worship him and replaced them with sycophants. Your brought up my military background so will share the secret of leadership. You pick the best people possible to do the job and then let them do their job supporting them as necessary. You listen to all and then make the tough decisions your position requires. A good leader feels the pulse of those being led and course corrects as required to keep all focused on mission accomplishment. Trump was a narcissist and did not have the ability to consider those who had different ideas. When the pandemic hit he recognized it could badly reflect on him in the 20 election. He bet badly and stupidly on immediate and full reopening. If he had acted in a mature manner he would probably have been reelected as the thin margin of victory reveals.
His actions regarding the pandemic appalled me. How many Americans died who did not have to? He and the syncophants who wanted to ride his coattails condemned many to early death. Unfortunately our laws are so weak and we are so divided that Trump, DeSantis, and others will never be brought to justice for their handling of the pandemic. No, I would not go after those who just made mistakes. But I would bury under the jail those who let contracts to friends and contributors.
I do not assume your questions irrelevant or useless. I am only pointing out the questions have been answered. I am assuming your resistance is more political in nature than scientific. The people I personally know that are not getting the vaccine are mostly people I avoided before the pandemic because they are close minded and/or oblivious. I would like to see those people not allowed to vote, but they have that right and unlike Republicans I think the more people who study the issues and vote the better off the country will be.
"Conspiracy" is an overblown word. If can tie everything up neatly in a "conspiracy," it's not.
A true conspiracy is a group of people with differing (and sometimes conflicting) agendas, all working independently in their own self-interest toward a nebulous common goal. There will be all kinds of loose ends, internal fighting and worse.
I do not deny 600,000 people in the US have died from this. I'm not saying the vaccine isn't effective. I'm saying we are playing around with crap that won't come out for 5-10 years and when it does it probably won't be good news.
If I was the solid Trump supporter you think I am I would have been first in line to get it. I don't worship Trump. I like his ideas, and you're right, he made mistakes. But he also made magnificent things happen.
And what was he supposed to do? Remember what his scope of authority is. He didn't tell Cuomo to put COVID positive people into nursing homes when the science was already out there the it kills the elderly in vastly disproportionate numbers. Trump had no authority, real or imagined, to cause that to happen or stop it. New York asked for help, Trump delivered without hesitation the USNS Mercy. It was barely used. He got ventilators and other breathing assist devices to where they were requested as fast as the logistics could deliver them. He's the guy who got Operation Warp Speed going by telling the FDA to fast-track the research and testing for these vaccines.
This was an accidental release because someone screwed up. If it had been intentional, it would have been done like 12 Monkeys. Everything after that has been cover-up, obfuscation and trying to save face. That's why the CCP welded doors shut on apartment buildings with people inside so no one could "see" or count them.
And just in case you didn't know, Wuhan was weaponizing COVID. Fauci was getting them funding on the down low. That's not answering all of the questions I have either.
So here's a video from The Hill (no Fox News here) and I really dislike this guy normally, but I listen to what he says, no matter if I agree with it or not.
Just so I understand, you are saying that Fauci was assisting China in weaponizing Covid?
You're assuming facts not in evidence and making a leap of logic I wouldn't.
Yes, Wuhan was conducting "range of function" research on COVID. The only reason why you want to expand RoF of a virus is to weaponize it. Yes, Fauci was quietly diverting funds to that lab.
Now, was the the only project Wuhan was working on? I don't know. Maybe or maybe not. Was the lab exceeding their orders and doing this on their own authority? I don't know. Maybe or maybe not. Was Fauci informed on exactly what the lab was doing? I don't know. Maybe or maybe not. Could it be Fauci was lied to about what the lab was doing, making him a useful idiot? I don't know. Maybe or maybe not. Could it be that Fauci is part of a "Depopulate Earth" movement (ala Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six) and was read all the way in on what Wuhan was doing? I don't know. Maybe or maybe not.
Do you see the nuances there? I don't see a "grand international conspiracy" here based on the two facts above, and refuse to assume or infer one until more evidence is available. Answer my 5 questions above and we would have a better idea on the scope of said assumed "Conspiracy."
Now, what would be a telling sign is, if Fauci by himself or as part of a group trying to patent the COVID-19 genome. Natural virus genomes are not patentable. Engineered virii genomes are patentable.
Again, I don't see a conspiracy here. I do see people acting in their own self-interest in nefarious ways.